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Author Topic: KDE XFCE - Meta packages? how to?  (Read 223 times)

Offline ElQuia

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KDE XFCE - Meta packages? how to?
« on: October 12, 2018, 11:43:00 pm »
Hi everyone. The last sparky I installed was a couple of years ago, desktop KDE on one machine, XFCE for an older PC. I just LOVED both.
Now, prodigal son coming home I find out that latest sparky does not come in either versions.
So.
Question:
Is it feasable  to download multimedia iso or lqt iso and install some meta packages to upgrade those to KDE or XFCE desktops?, in that case:
1- What are the commands (I AM sort of newbie) to do that (I would be very happy if some one could detail those)
2- What base to start from is best, multimedia or lxqt, I need a multi purpose machine, with abilities to work with multimedia, office, internet, bla

Just in case: THANKSSSSSSSSSS :-)

Offline hedon

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Re: KDE XFCE - Meta packages? how to?
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2018, 01:12:20 am »
I havent done this yet, as I came here recently for the LXQt flavor, but I think you're working too hard to get a KDE or XFCE flavor of Sparky.  Not sure if you're looking for Stable or Rolling, but Sparky has a minimal ISO; one is Minimal GUI and the other is Minimum CLI. 

The CLI version has no Xserver, nor desktop environment, but you could easily install Xorg and KDE or XFCE packages to build up your distro.  Although I've done this numerous times in the Ubuntu family, I'm still a bit of a new fella around Sparky and Debian, and package naming is a little bit different, so I'm afraid I'll tell you the wrong terminal command, or call a package by its Ubuntu name rather than Debian.  But in Ubuntu you'd install xserver-xorg, kubuntu-desktop for KDE or xubuntu-desktop for XFCE.  I would imagine Sparky references meta-packages as kde-desktop or xfce-desktop, or something similar.  I hope someone else and provides the names of the Sparky packages you want for a CLI install.

Conversely, there is a Minimal GUI ISO.  Not sure what the GUI might be in the Minimal ISO, but I imagine it's a lightweight WM like Openbox or something similar.  It's probably just as easy, or easier, to install the Minimal GUI ISO and then use APTus to install the KDE or XFCE desktop environment meta-package you're looking for.  This is probably a better way to go for a prodigal son who is just now returning to Sparky.  Ease back into it buddy...and ENJOY!

Offline paxmark1

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Re: KDE XFCE - Meta packages? how to?
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2018, 05:48:32 am »
You could always try "tasksel" as root in the command line.  I would go with as minimal a desktop prior as possible. 

https://release.debian.org/transitions/   Not a whole lot of major upcoming changes in KDE land for sid/testing.  perl5.28 might have some hiccups various people, but hopefully mostly in sid.  And what with the freeze in the semi-near future, this might be a great time to jump into KDE.  There was a whole lot shaking when you came around prior.
Don't make a FrankenDebian

Offline ElQuia

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Re: KDE XFCE - Meta packages? how to?
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2018, 11:19:45 pm »
paxmark, soooooo, slow down please, I am a newbie, windows guy mostly, migrating to linux the last couple of years. Have been testing in Virtualbox some distros, and my final election was between mint and sparky, just loved (don´t ask why) sparky. Sparky with KDE for modern machines, and with xfce for older. ALWAYS considering (I do IT) those Desktops because I need to male it ease for windows users.

So the question is:
1- Frorm what varation of Sparky should I start? (lxqt, multimedia, etc?) considering I need machines with basic capabilities, aka, internet, office, basic video, audio and graphic processing?
2- Target machines are some newer (KDE will do fine) and some older (XFCE required)
3-Starting from (1-), what would the command lines be to install all the meta packages required?

IN ADVANCE: THANKSSSSSSSS

Offline paxmark1

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Re: KDE XFCE - Meta packages? how to?
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2018, 06:21:59 am »
Sorry, when you were last around and you were going with KDEit was a very chaotic and difficult time for KDE, I assumed you had linux experience.

So in the sdhc in my netbook, I did a minimal gui Sparky5 install, hung up (maybe from using Ctl_alt_F1 but no showing install process)  and had to update grub in sda (minimal gui is in sdb)  and well, it takes awhile.  Not there yet.

In virtual box on debian stable machine, much faster.  Installed, changed over from live system. 
First - my  style  I open up a terminal and make it a root terminal
I comment out /deb/multimedia from etc/apt/sources.list as root using nano cli editor
apt update apt -full-upgrade -d (downloads) apt full-upgrade. 
apt autoclean
tasksel   ### starts up the ncurses  DE installer.
              ###I selected KDE. 
              ## 991 packages.
reboot

When it starts back up before you log in toggle the little button at the top right of sddm (or lightdm)  to startup in Plasma instead of openbox
log in
 
You should have kde. I do.  Possibly it starts in lightdm and then when it goes to sleep and you are asked to log in again (in sddm probably) I does not accept my password, I have to back up and start a new session. 

Maybe others will give a simpler way. 

man tasksel lets you know about it's options.  It is old but extremely reliable.
 
Don't make a FrankenDebian

Offline hedon

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Re: KDE XFCE - Meta packages? how to?
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2018, 07:13:28 pm »
Thanks for that info paxmark!

I'm not a KDE user, with no intentions of becoming one, but I am trying to soak up as much Sparky knowledge as I can.  Looking at the Debian wiki for KDE, I saw several packages for KDE, with tasksel appearing to be the most complete:

Code: [Select]
https://wiki.debian.org/KDE#Installation
Are the Debian packages being referenced called the same in Sparky?  Just curious.  I also note you started with the minimal GUI ISO and installed KDE on top of that.  For a "cleaner" KDE, with no "overlapping" or "leftover" packages, would the minimal CLI ISO installation be as simple as:

Code: [Select]
sudo apt install xserver-xorg tasksel task-kde-desktop
or is that Debian specific, rather than Sparky?  If so, what would the Sparky packages be called for a minimal CLI ISO?

To the original poster:  Any specific reasons to choose KDE for your newer machines and XFCE for older?  I'm assuming XFCE on older due to lightweight functionality, and I'm guessing you just like KDE?  Have you tried the Sparky LXQt ISO?  It is based on Qt (like KDE), but is lightweight like XFCE (actually lighter than), representing the best of both worlds, IMO.  And given enough time, I think you'll appreciate not having to administer 2 different desktop ecosystems...vastly different ecosystems with entirely different sets of quirks and idiosyncracies.  Plus, LXQt is done very well in Sparky, but that's just my opinion.  FWIW...   8)

Offline ElQuia

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Re: KDE XFCE - Meta packages? how to?
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2018, 04:31:22 pm »
hedon, you AR right, LOL (I'm assuming XFCE on older due to lightweight functionality, and I'm guessing you just like KDE?) Of all linux desktops KDE is the one I like most,  XFCE is lighter, and as IT I do some social works fixing older PC´s for marginal schools in some "barrios" in Argentina. We are talkin about Pentium IV (guac) with 512 kb RAM or so.....  Forget Windows, forget KDE.....

Offline ElQuia

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Re: KDE XFCE - Meta packages? how to?
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2018, 04:39:09 pm »
And people:
1- ¿Why should I not start with Sparky Multimedia (don´t know what desktop it uses), I need machines with full multimedia capacity, libre office, a GOOD audio media player jukebox, A good image viewer sort of XNView, some basic image procesing, a good video viewer (no editing), a good file manager. Ability to read/mount external NTFS discs, .....Just that.
2- I need the command line sequence to install basic KDE and basic XFCE plus some recommendations refered to 1-

I have to migrate aprox 40 machines to XFCE and 5/6 to KDE

Offline hedon

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Re: KDE XFCE - Meta packages? how to?
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2018, 05:20:08 pm »
Looking at the package list for Sparky Multimedia, it looks to me like that spin is geared toward audio/video PRODUCTION.  I see packages for hydrogen (drum looper), guitarix (signal processing), and numerous similar packages for audio processing, recording, etc...  Based on your stated requirements, I think Multimedia is going to be serious overkill for your stated intended use, and potentially even confusing to new users.  On top of that, I see Openbox packages, so it's likely an Openbox WM distro; you'll still need to install KDE and/or XFCE packages.  In my opinion, this is analogous to saying you're looking for something to swat flys with, but asking about sledgehammers!  Of course, it is your decision to make, but that is my opinion.

With that said, did you see my question/suggestion about Sparky LXQt?  It's built with the same toolkit at KDE (Qt), but lightweight like XFCE.  LXQt is very malleable and can be made to resemble KDE or XFCE in layout/appearance.  It comes with LibreOffice, a good music player called Yarock (I prefer Cantata or Clementine), a video player (VLC), an image viewer (LXimage), and PCManFM-Qt is a good file manager.  I think the ability to read/mount NTFS disks is pretty standard stuff in Linux nowadays, although pretty much all my storage is formatted EXT4 or FAT nowadays.  I hope someone corrects me if my NTFS statement is incorrect.  The only thing I see missing is some basic image processing software.  Are you looking to modify photos specifically, or just images in general?  If the former, Darktable is in the repos for installation.  If the latter, GIMP or MtPaint, or even Krita are ALL available for installation.  So it looks like you're only installing one package to suit your needs with LXQt.  I don't want to shove LXQt down your throat, and I don't know ALL of your situation, but based on what you're saying you want, I really think LXQt fits the bill for you.  FWIW...

But if LXQt isn't for you and you simply must have KDE or XFCE, I think the Minimal GUI is the way for you to go.  Sparky has developed an in-house application called "APTus" that will provide you with the ability to do what you want with minimal effort.  (I don't know the package names in Sparky yet, so I can't provide the terminal commands.  If I knew the package names, I'd suggest the Minimal CLI ISO and terminal packages.  In the absence of that knowledge, Minimal GUI and APTus is the way to go!)  From the Main Menu choose System Settings>APTus and enter your password for root permissions.  APTus has a tab on the left for "Desktop" selections...all of which are available in Sparky...including KDE and XFCE.  Just make your selection and let APTus to the heavy lifting for you.  Enjoy your new desktop!

Offline hedon

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Re: KDE XFCE - Meta packages? how to?
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2018, 08:32:21 pm »
hedon, you AR right, LOL (I'm assuming XFCE on older due to lightweight functionality, and I'm guessing you just like KDE?) Of all linux desktops KDE is the one I like most,  XFCE is lighter, and as IT I do some social works fixing older PC´s for marginal schools in some "barrios" in Argentina. We are talkin about Pentium IV (guac) with 512 kb RAM or so.....  Forget Windows, forget KDE.....

I just noticed this part.  I hope you meant 512MB, not kb?!  Assuming its 512MB, is there any way to bump up to 1GB?  512kb isn't much for ANY desktop environment...typical browsers like Firefox, Chromium, etc... will probably bring 512kb to its knees.  I'm not sure XFCE will be light enough for only 512kb?  In my experience, XFCE typically uses about 300MB in its default state, at idle, depending on configuration.  I guess it will depend on HOW it's being used, but less RAM used by the desktop environment is more RAM for the applications.  With that said, you might just want to use the Minimal GUI ISO, using Openbox as a Window Manager.  Naked Openbox uses about 100MB in its default state, depending on what you autostart with the OB session.  It doesn't get much lighter weight than that.  If you decide to go that route, I'd install the lxpanel package so you can add menu, launcher panels, system tray, etc...  Folks migrating from Windows really need a paradigm that looks like what they're used to.  PC Linux OS has a pretty good tutorial to give you the basics of configuring an lxpanel to your liking:

Code: [Select]
https://pclosmag.com/html/Issues/201010/page07.html

Offline ElQuia

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Re: KDE XFCE - Meta packages? how to?
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2018, 10:26:51 pm »
LOL, yep 512 MB, juaaaaaaa , no down here you can´t get  the memory modules that go, frecuency, bla,. they are QUITE OLD, I have some P4 with  512 and some witn 1024, it´s sort or chartity work.....
"Folks migrating from Windows really need a paradigm that looks like what they're used to"  yes, that IS the theme

OK, I´ll stat with lxqt, play arround, and see how it goes. But please, if some one could post de command lines for installing XFCE and/or KDE meta pakages I would be gratefull

Offline hedon

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Re: KDE XFCE - Meta packages? how to?
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2018, 11:08:35 pm »
Sparky WIKI has instructions for you:

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https://sparkylinux.org/wiki/doku.php/minimal

Offline paxmark1

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Re: KDE XFCE - Meta packages? how to?
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2018, 03:16:50 am »
tasksel does not seem to work so well, might be a sparky-lightdm versus sddm thing.   Who knows. 

as normal user, "sudo sparky-desktop kde" fixed the hangup when KDE went to sleep and would shift from lightdm to sddm.  I did it on the pre-existing virtual machine  with the previous  tasksel install and the "sudo sparky-desktop kde"  modified some of the KDE programs installed.  The glitch that had a total lockup in Vbox (no virtual teminals) disappeared. 

But as above, KDE is the most memory and cpu intensive DE around probably.  xfce and lxqt are your best bets for small memory DE's.  Some of those old computers (and their fans) will consume lots of energy.     
Don't make a FrankenDebian

Offline hedon

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Re: KDE XFCE - Meta packages? how to?
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2018, 03:28:45 am »
tasksel does not seem to work so well, might be a sparky-lightdm versus sddm thing.   Who knows. 

as normal user, "sudo sparky-desktop kde" fixed the hangup when KDE went to sleep and would shift from lightdm to sddm.  I did it on the pre-existing virtual machine  with the previous  tasksel install and the "sudo sparky-desktop kde"  modified some of the KDE programs installed.  The glitch that had a total lockup in Vbox (no virtual teminals) disappeared. 

But as above, KDE is the most memory and cpu intensive DE around probably.  xfce and lxqt are your best bets for small memory DE's.  Some of those old computers (and their fans) will consume lots of energy.   

As usual, pretty good info ^ Paxmark.  I would only add that recent versions of KDE with Plasma 5 desktop have gotten very efficient with memory usage, hovering between 350-450MB in default idle, depending on config and autostart!  KDE is getting pretty close to XFCE usage, especially with XFCE starting its migration from gtk2 to gtk3 toolkits.  Gnome is now the undisputed memory hog king.  The hierarchy, from highest to lowest, of major DEs now looks like this:

Gnome>KDE>XFCE>LXQT>LXDE>Enlightenment>naked *Box WMs